Subject: Knudson "Probes Through Kennedy's Body" Testimony Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:18:48 GMT From: 6489mcadamsj@vms.csd.mu.edu (John McAdams) Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Newsgroups: alt.assassination.jfk The following is from testimony given to the HSCA in Executive Session on August 11, 1978. It is NA Record Number 180-10105-10333, Agency File Number 014028. ---------------------------------------------------- 31 [...] 4 Mr. Purdy. We have gone over quite a few of your recollec- 5 tions, and we are going to show you, in a second, the color 6 autopsy prints that we have and ask you whether the prints that 7 you are shown are consistent with your recollections of them when 8 you saw them. 9 The primary points that we are going to cover are the 10 number and locations of wounds and the other details in the 11 photographs that you described generally, such as the presence 12 of metal probes in the photographs and the presence of rules 13 in the photographs, and what have you. 14 Are you confident now that you saw metal probes in the 15 photographs? 16 Mr. Knudsen. Yes. 17 Mr. Purdy. Are you confident that the metal probes were 18 actually through the wounds when you saw them? 19 Mr. Kn udsen. Yes, I am certain of that, because it showed 20 the point of entry and exit with the probe. 21 Mr. Purdy. Were there ever photographs that you have seen, 22 either before this incident or since that incident that you might 23 be confusing with your recollection of these photographs? 24 Mr. Knudsen. To my knowledge, I have not seen anything 25 regarding -- I have never seen any photographs of it other than 32 1 the ones taken there. 2 Mr. Purdy. Have you seen photographs of any other autopsies 3 Mr. Knudsen. No. 4 Mr. Purdy. Have you seen photographs of any other dead 5 bodies. that may have probes in them? 6 Mr. Knudsen. Yes, I have. I am certain on the Kennedy 7 there were the probes showing the point of entry and exit. 8 Mr. Purdy. How many probes were there that you saw in a 9 given picture? What is the most probes that you saw in a given 10 picture at one time? 11 Mr. Knudsen. I know there were two. 12 Mr. Purdy. Two metal probes that were through wounds whe 13 you saw them? 14 Mr. Knudsen. Yes. 15 Mr. Purdy. We will take a break. It is 11:20. 16 (A brief recess was taken.) 17 Mr. Purdy. We will resuem. The time is now 11:28, and 18 Mr. Knusen and I have just spoken with Bob Goff on the phone and, 19 Mr. Knusen, if you just-want to briefly state what Mr. Goff said 20 to you about whether you could talk to us? 21 Mr. Knudsen. Well, Mr. Goff said that under the circumstan- 22 ces that, it being a legitimate government subcommittee, that 23 he felt that it would be appropriate to cooperate to the fullest. 24 He did not have any objection to my talking. 25 The main thing that they felt was continued silence towards 33 1 any assassination buffs, reporters or this sort of thing. But, 2 in so far as any Committee, they had no objection and thought 3 that I should cooperate. 4 Mr. Purdy. Thank you. 5 As I said previously, Mr. Goff is the General Counsel of 6 the United States Secret Service. 7 Now, before the break we were talking about the number of 8 probes, and you had said the most you saw in any one picture was 9 two. I believe that is what you stated, is that correct? 10 Mr. Knudsen. I said the minimum was two. 11 Mr. Purdy. What was the most? 12 Mr. Knudsen. Over this period of time. I am not certain. 13 It seems to me that there were three in one picture, but this 14 1 will not state for sure. 15 Mr. Purdy Of the proves that you recall, where did they 16 enter and where did they exit? 17 Mr. Knudsen. One was right near the neck and out the back. 18 Mr. Purdy. The front of the neck and out the back of the 19 neck? 20 Mr. Knudsen. The point of entry-exit. 21 Mr. Purdy. The metal probe extended from the front of the 22 neck to the back of the neck? 23 Mr. Knudsen. Right. One was through the chest cavity. 24 Mr. Purdy. Did it go all the way through? 25 Mr. Knudsen. Yes. It seems to me that the entry point was 34 1 a little bit lower in the back than -- well, the point in the back 2 was a little bit lower than the point in the front. Put it that 3 way. So the probe was going diagonally from top to bottom, front 4 to back. 5 Mr. Purdy. Approximately, regarding both probes, how high 6 you mentioned the one was from the front of the neck, the probe 7 extended between points on the front of the neck and the back of 8 the neck. How high an the back of the neck, and how high Or 'Old 9 from the front of the neck would you say for that probe? 10 Mr. Knudsen. As I said, not studying them for technical 11 purposes, it seemed to me that the point on the front was about 12 this point, somewhere in this area 'here (Indicating). 13 Mr. Purdy.- Could you articulate? 14 Mr. Knudsen. What bone is this? 15 Mr. Purdy. You are pointing to a point right around the 16 top 17 Mr. Knudsen. Right about where the neck-tie is. That would 18 be somewhere in that vicinity. 19 Mr. Purdy. -Approximately how much lower than that would you 20 say the other probe, which went through the chest cavity? 21 Mr. Knudsen. I would put it six, seven inches. 22 Mr. Purdy. Was it opened or closed in the photograph? 23 Mr. Knudsen. It was a side view. I just glanced at it to 24 make sure. 25 Mr. Purdy. From the side view, you saw both probes? 35 1 Mr. Knudsen. Right. 2 Mr. Purdy. Where would you place the points of the probes 3 in the back? You say one was in the neck, one was in the back 4 Approximately how high up, or how low? 5 Mr. Knudsen. I would put in the back -- it would seem to 6 me it is probably around ten inches. There, again, I do not 7 recall the length of time. I cannot say. 8 Mr. Purdy. You were kind of pointing to the middle of 9 your back, about midway down you would say? 10 Mr. Knudsen. Midway between the neck and the waist. 11 Mr. Purdy. Where was the other probe? 12 Mr. Knudsen. This one - 13 Mr. Purdy. You just indicated where the probe came out, on 14 the lower - - 15 Mr. Knudsen. Somewhere around the middle of the back. It 16 seemed to me it was right around midchest. 17 Mr. Purdy. The probe that you said you could see coming 18 out of the neck, the front of the neck, where was it out of the 19 back of the neck? How high up would you say that one was. 20 Mr. Knudsen. About the base of the neck. 21 [Purdy] Was the body lying flat, or sitting up or lying on its front 22 when you saw the probes through it? 23 Mr. Knudsen. It would have to be erected to put the probes 24 through, because on the back there was no way. 25 Mr. Purdy. Could you make out the faces of the people who 36 1 were holding him or the faces of the people in the background? 2 Mr. Knudsen. To my knowledge, there were no faces. 3 Mr. Purdy. Could you see their hands? 4 Mr. Knudsen. There again, I did not study them. 5 Mr. Purdy. Was there, in any of the photographs, a photo 6 graph showing a metal probe through the head? 7 Mr. Knudsen. No, not to my knowledge. To my knowledge, the 8 only photograph of the head was to show the wound in the right 9 rear of the head there, a little right of center. ------------------------------------------------- Does anybody want to argue that this testimony is anything other than "profoundly unreliable?" .John