Subject: Re: John Elrod - the 4th tramp Date: 04 Sep 1999 22:55:42 GMT From: dreitzes@aol.com (Dave Reitzes) Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Newsgroups: alt.assassination.jfk >From: reharris@spinn.net (Robert Harris) > > >The Fourth Tramp > >Washington Post 8/94 By Ray and Mary La Fontaine [snip] (quote) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: Steve Bochan Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk.moderated,alt.conspiracy.jfk Subject: ELROD DOCS NOT IN OT #2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3938 X-Status: Status: OR Here is a copy of the Memphis, Tennessee FBI report dated 8/11/64 that describes their interview with Elrod, almost 10 months after the assassination. This report also does not appear in the La Fontaines' OSWALD TALKED. Wonder why ... 1 August 11, 1964 JOHN FRANKLIN ELROD, an inmate of the Shelby County, Tennessee, Jail, as of August 11, 1964, furnished the following information: ELROD currently lives at Memphis, Tennessee, and has been staying at the Harbor House, Memphis, prior to the time of his arrest for which he was placed in jail on August 11, 1964. The Harbor House, 1369 Court Avenue, Memphis, is a home for alcoholics, and ELROD stated that he, himself, is an alcoholic. ELROD had come to the Shelby County Sheriff's Office during the early morning hours of August 11, 1964, after having consumed some beer and vodka. He was at that time in possession of a sawed-off 12 gauge shotgun which had a pistol grip. He stated that he had begun to think of the possibilities of killing his wife from whom he is now separated. Inasmuch as he had the sawed-off shotgun and the desire to kill her was known to him, he decided he should come to the Sheriff's Office and talk, which he did. He further advised that he had been somewhat troubled by events which occurred immediately following the assassination of President JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY at Dallas, Texas, on November 11, [sic] 1963. Shortly after the assassination of the President, ELROD, who had been about two and one half miles from the scene of the assassination at Lemon and Oaklawn Streets in Dallas, was arrested by the Dallas Police Department and placed in the City Jail. His arrest had nothing to do with the assassination of the President. At the City Jail in Dallas, he was placed in Cell 10 on the fifth floor, and at that time his cellmate was a man whose identity he could not recall. An individual, whose face was smashed up, was brought into the hallway of the jail where ELROD and his cellmate could observe him. At that time the unknown cellmate made some mention that he had known this man with the injured face as a result of meeting him at a hotel. The cellmate stated that five men had met at a motel, and they had been advanced some money under some type of contract. One of these men was reported to have received $5,000. The man with the injured face had received some money, and he was reported to have been driving a Thunderbird automobile with a large quantity of guns contained therein. ELROD advised he was confined in Dallas City Jail for a period of 72 hours, and he was confused at this time concerning the events which occurred. He stated he could not recall whether JACK RUBY's name had been mentioned prior to the time of the killing of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, but that this cellmate at some time had told him that one of the men who had been at the motel referred to above, name and location unknown, had been JACK RUBY. This was all the information which ELROD could recall. He stated that on several occasions he has had difficulty remembering due to his extreme use of alcohol. He knew nothing concerning the assassination of the President, the involvement of JACK RUBY in the killing of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, or of any information concerning the possibility of the receipt of money by JACK RUBY, except the hearsay information he had received from his unknown cellmate. ELROD is described as follows: Race white Sex male Date of Birth November 12, 1932 Place of Birth Bassett, Arkansas Height 5'11 1/2" Weight 180 lbs. Complexion medium Occupation cook Wife JACKIE PAT ELROD nee Richards, 2816 Morris, Dallas, Texas Father HOBSON ELROD, Bassett, Arkansas Scars and marks one and one-half inch cut scar on forehead; little finger, left hand, off at first joint; left arm is undersized. (end quote) - - - - - - - - - - - - >From: cworks@spinn.net (Robert Harris) > [snip] >Unfortunately, the FBI took a somewhat different attitude about Elrod's >story. They falsely claimed in their report, that Elrod wasn't even in the >Dallas jail on 11/22/63, and they tried to create the impression that >Elrod never mentioned Oswald's name, only referring to an "unnamed >cellmate". Bob, not to mention another person or two *really* close to the La Fontaines, refused to answer a question I posted a few months back. It relates to this document, posted originally by Steve Bochan: (quote) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > 8/17/64 > > > > AIRTEL > > > > TO: SAC, DALLAS (44-1639) > > > > FROM: SAC, MEMPHIS (44-1165) (RUC) > > > > SUBJECT: JACK L. RUBY, aka; > > LEE HARVEY OSWALD (Deceased) - VICTIM > > CR > > > > Re Memphis airtel to Dallas dated 8/11/64. > > > > Enclosed herewith is one copy of identification > > record of JOHN FRANKLIN ELROD, FBI #91 666 E. > > > > It is noted that ELROD does not appear to have been > > in custody of the Dallas, Texas, PD as of 11/22/63. > This 8/17/64 AIRTEL was in response to a previous AIRTEL from Memphis to Dallas on 8/11/64. Check out the "Re". When Dallas responded to Memphis, they included the Dallas "Rap Sheet" on Elrod which included arrests on the following dates: 5/23/61, 2/14/62, 11/15/62, 3/19/63 and the last one in Memphis of 8/11/64. IOW, -no- recorded arrest for Elrod on 11/22/63 per the FBI AIRTEL. It was an arrest record "found" after almost 30 years in Dallas files that led the La Fontaines on this road. They have a picture of it on page 28, claiming the FBI "lied" about Elrod's arrest record. (end quote) - - - - - - - - - - - So my question a few months ago for Bob and for another person or two or three (it's hard to tell with these folks, as some know and others could well find out) was: Where is your evidence that the Memphis FBI intentionally falsified this Elrod report? The Airtel proves they did not intentionally falsify the data about Elrod's 11-22-63 arrest; they got an incorrect report from Dallas. Was the Dallas Airtel intentionally falsified? I don't know. I didn't have any luck getting anyone to help me out with that question, either. But it doesn't matter with regard to Elrod's credibility, because the La Fontaines and their sidekick Bob need to prove that the *Memphis* FBI guys lied. Where's the proof? Here's some more stuff that I posted before without any substantive response. (Actually, I don't even think any of the responses I got would be acceptable on the moderated group. Anyway . . .) Bob Harris tells us: (quote) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gilless's letter to Hoover reads in part: "This subject walked into our office at approximately 12:30 a.m. this date and stated he had information concerning the murder of Lee Oswalt (sic). He had with him a travel bag which contained a sawed-off shot gun. The local office of the FBI has been informed of this subject and stated they would conduct an investigation. Please wire reply collect. Yours truly, Alton C. Gilless Jr." […] The FBI's local office also was involved in talking to Elrod. In another National Archives document, Special Agent Joseph M. Brewi writes to an unidentified "SAC" or special agent in charge that Shelby County Sheriff's Capt. R. G. McEllroy called him about Elrod. McEllroy died in 1982. "(Elrod) claimed he had information re the death of Oswald and wanted to get it off his chest. McEllroy added that Elrod was sober and he, McEllroy, thought Elrod may have some information of value," Brewi wrote. (end quote) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Two different people are emphatic about Elrod having information specifically on the death of Lee Harvey Oswald. Not information concerning the death of the President. Not information concerning Lee Harvey Oswald. Information on "the death of Oswald." We have an FBI report that specifically says Elrod discussed Oswald's killer, but could not identify the cellmate who spoke about Ruby. This report also says that Elrod was not sure whether his cellmate mentioned Ruby before or after Oswald's death, thus implying rather strongly that the cellmate himself was not Oswald. We're told by the La Fontaines and Mr. Harris that this FBI report must be deceitful because the Memphis FBI agents who wrote it lied about Elrod not being in jail the weekend of the assassination. But we also have information, courtesy of Mr. Bochan, suggesting that the Memphis FBI agents were simply misinformed about Elrod's record, thus undermining the accusation of deception on their part. Then we get the *Hard Copy* transcript, and what's the most memorable thing Elrod says? That when Oswald got killed, "It scared the hell out of me. Because I knew Jack Ruby." Not "I knew Oswald" -- "I knew Jack Ruby." Of course, we can't just dismiss what Elrod says later in this broadcast when asked what he told the FBI in 1964: "I just told them I . . . I was arrested for the . . . for the murder down there and I was in a cell with Oswald and . . . that was it" [ellipses in original]. Now, since the La Fs are strangely reluctant to quote John Elrod in their book, yet present a number of quotes from John's brother Lindy, is it not reasonable to infer that the La Fs' main source for the Elrod story is Lindy? And am I correct in thinking that Lindy Elrod's story seems somewhat mutable? Did the following quotation come from an interview done exclusively for *Hard Copy,* or is it from a videotaped interview of the La Fs'? "He told Johnny . . . said I did not shoot no President. Johnny said I know I didn't shoot no President. I believe that . . . that Oswald told Johnny something and he just don't wanna come out with it. I don't know what happened. Really don't know what happened. And probably never will know. But something, to me, put a fright in Johnny" [ellipses in original]. I ask because I don't see anything in the La Fs book about John Elrod hearing Oswald deny shooting the President. Such a statement from Elrod would be useful in establishing who his alleged cellmate could have been, correct? So to rephrase my question, did the La Fontaines omit this claim from their book, or did ol' Lindy say it to *Hard Copy,* but not the La Fs? If the La Fs left such a seemingly important statement out of their book, why? Or if Lindy didn't tell such a seemingly important thing to the La Fs, why not? A slight digression: Let's go back to that August 11, 1964, Memphis FBI report for a minute. Am I the only person who thinks that there would be no point in attempting to obscure Elrod's alleged importance by removing Oswald's name from an FBI report and LEAVING IN Jack Ruby's? Anyone noticed how much space in the Warren Commission exhibits is devoted to Jack Ruby, Jack Ruby's background, Jack Ruby's health, Jack Ruby's associates, and miscellaneous Jack Ruby "sightings"? So we're to believe that the conspirators had no problem forwarding to FBI HQ and the Warren Commission a report placing Jack Ruby in a motel room a few days before the assassination with large sums of cash changing hands? The Warren Commission was still deposing witnesses at the time of this August 11, 1964, report -- they deposed witnesses at least as late as September 15, 1964. Can we be sure that it was anything but timing and internal politics -- i.e., disagreements between Hubert & Griffin and the "big boys" -- mainly J. Lee Rankin and Earl Warren -- that kept the Warren Commission from looking into the story? If the FBI report is correct, as the above airtel and the contemporaneous statements from Gilless and McEllroy tend to suggest, is there not some reason to suspect that this entire "Oswald was my cellmate" story could be LINDY ELROD'S story? Hypothesis: "WHUT did you say, John? Yer cellmate was talking 'bout JACK THE RUBY? John, thet weren't no ordinary cellmate -- thet was LEE HARVEY OSWALD! HO-leeeeee *&^&&%, John, a feller could get KEE-yelled talkin' 'bout stuff lahk thet!" To coin a phrase, just a thought. Dave For more on the La Fontaines and their intriguing theories, please check out: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/laf.htm