From Ralph Schuster

Testimony Of Mrs. Helen Markham

March 26, 1964

The Chairman.: The purpose of the session of the Commission is for the purpose of taking testimony on the assassination of President Kennedy, and it is our information that you have some evidence concerning it and we want to ask you some questions concerning it. You are willing to testify, are you?
Mrs. Markham.: Do all I can.
The Chairman.: All right. Will you stand up and be sworn, please?
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you give before this Commission will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mrs. Markham.: I do.
The Chairman.: You may be seated. Mr. Ball will ask you the questions.
Mr. Ball.: Mrs. Markham, what is your address?
Mrs. Markham.: 328 East Ninth.
Mr. Ball.: In Dallas, Tex.?
Mrs. Markham.: Dallas, Tex.
Mr. Ball.: Where were you born, Mrs. Markham?
Mrs. Markham.: Where was I born? Dallas.
Mr. Ball.: The Commission would like to know something of your past life and experience, where you were born and your education so I will just ask you a few questions like that.
Take it easy, this is just--
Mrs. Markham.: I am very shook up.
Mr. Ball.: This is a very informal little conference here.
Mrs. Markham.: Well, do you want me to tell you about my life?
Mr. Ball.: Yes. Just tell us briefly where you were born and where you went to school and things of that kind.
Mrs. Markham.: I was born in Dallas, Dallas County. My father was a farmer. I was very small when my mother died, I was 6 years old; and my brothers and I were separated which they were put in the State orphans home, and I went to live with my aunt.
Mr. Dulles.: Are your brothers older or younger?
Mrs. Markham.: I have one older than I. And I went to live with my aunt and uncle in Grand Prairie. I went to Grand Prairie school.
Mr. Ball.: How far did you go through school?
Mrs. Markham.: Eighth grade.
Mr. Ball.: Then did you go to work?
Mrs. Markham.: No; I got married. I got married.
Mr. Ball.: How long were you married?
Mrs. Markham.: Me?
Mr. Ball.: I understand you are not married at the present time?
Mrs. Markham.: No. I am not married. I would have been married 25 years this past July.
Mr. Ball.: Were you a housewife for a while while you were married?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes; I was.
Mr. Ball.: How many years?
Mrs. Markham.: Let me see, about 8 years.
Mr. Ball.: Did you have any children?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, I did.
Mr. Ball.: How many children did you have?
Mrs. Markham.: Well, I have five children.
Mr. Ball.: Do they live with you now or what?
Mrs. Markham.: I have one son who stays with me.
Mr. Ball.: What has been your work most of your life since you were divorced, what kind of work have you done?
Mrs. Markham.: Waitress work.
Mr. Ball.: You have done waitress work?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, Sir.
Mr. Ball.: Where do you work now?
Mrs. Markham.: Eat Well Restaurant, 1404 Main Street, Dallas, Tex.
Mr. Ball.: Were you working there on November 22, 1963?
Mrs. Markham.: I was.
Mr. Ball.: What hours did you work?
Mrs. Markham.: I was due at work from 2:30 in the evening until 10:30 at night.
Mr. Ball.: Did you leave your home some time that morning to go to work?
Mrs. Markham.: That evening?
Mr. Ball.: Morning.
Mrs. Markham.: That morning?
Mr. Ball.: You left your home to go to work at some time, didn't you, that day?
Mrs. Markham.: At one.
Mr. Ball.: One o'clock?
Mrs. Markham.: I believe it was a little after 1.
Mr. Ball.: Where did you intend to catch the bus?
Mrs. Markham.: On Patton and Jefferson.
Mr. Ball.: Patton and Jefferson is about a block south of Patton and 10th Street, isn't it?
Mrs. Markham.: I think so.
Mr. Ball.: Well, where is your home from Patton and Jefferson?
Mrs. Markham.: I had came--I come one block, I had come one block from my home.
Mr. Ball.: You were walking, were you?
Mrs. Markham.: I came from 9th to the corner of 10th Street.
Mr. Ball.: And you were walking toward Jefferson?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Tenth Street runs the same direction as Jefferson, doesn't it?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: It runs in a generally east and west direction?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: And Patton runs north and south?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir; up and down this way.
Mr. Ball.: So you were walking south toward Jefferson?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: You think it was a little after 1?
Mrs. Markham.: I wouldn't be afraid to bet it wasn't 6 or 7 minutes after 1.
Mr. Ball.: You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you?
Mrs. Markham.: 1:15.
Mr. Ball.: So it was before 1:15?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, it was.
Mr. Ball.: When you came to the corner of Patton and 10th Street--first of all, what side of the street were you walking on?
Mrs. Markham.: Now you have got me mixed up on all my streets. I was on the opposite of where this man was.
Mr. Ball.: Well, you were walking along the street--
Mrs. Markham.: On the street.
Mr. Ball.: On Patton, you were going toward Jefferson?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: And you were on the right- or left-hand side of the street as you were walking south?
Mrs. Markham.: That would be on the left.
Mr. Ball.: Your right.
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, it would be right.
Mr. Ball.: Right-hand side, wouldn't it? When you came to the corner did you have to stop before you crossed 10th Street?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, I did.
Mr. Ball.: Why?
Mrs. Markham.: On account the traffic was coming.
Mr. Ball.: And you stopped there on the corner?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: That would be the northwest corner, wouldn't it?
Mrs. Markham.: Northwest corner.
Mr. Ball.: Is that right?
Mrs. Markham.: I believe it is. I believe it is the northwest corner.
Mr. Ball.: Did you see any man walking at that time?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes; I seen this man on the opposite side, across the street from me. He was almost across Patton Street.
Mr. Ball.: Almost across Patton?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Walking in what direction?
Mrs. Markham.: I guess this would be south.
Mr. Ball.: Along 10th, east? Was it along 10th?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Walking away from you, wasn't he?
Mrs. Markham.: He was walking up 10th, away from me.
Mr. Ball.: To your left?
Mrs. Markham.: Well, he was on the opposite side of the street to me like that.
Mr. Ball.: Had he reached the curb yet?
Mrs. Markham.: Almost ready to get up on the curb.
Mr. Ball.: What did you notice then?
Mrs. Markham.: Well, I noticed a police car coming.
Mr. Ball.: Where was the police car when you first saw it?
Mrs. Markham.: He was driving real slow, almost up to this man, well, say this man, and he kept, this man kept walking, you know, and the police car going real slow now, real slow, and they just kept coming into the curb, and finally they got way up there a little ways up, well, it stopped.
Mr. Ball.: The police car stopped?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: What about the man? Was he still walking?
Mrs. Markham.: The man stopped.
Mr. Ball.: Then what did you see the man do?
Mrs. Markham.: I saw the man come over to the car very slow, leaned and put his arms just like this, he leaned over in this window and looked in this window.
Mr. Ball.: He put his arms on the window ledge?
Mrs. Markham.: The window was down.
Mr. Ball.: It was?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Put his arms on the window ledge?
Mrs. Markham.: On the ledge of the window.
Mr. Ball.: And the policeman was sitting where?
Mrs. Markham.: On the driver's side.
Mr. Ball.: He was sitting behind the wheel?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Was he alone in the car?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Ball.: Then what happened?
Mrs. Markham.: Well, I didn't think nothing about it; you know, the police are nice and friendly, and I thought friendly conversation. Well, I looked, and there were cars coming, so I had to wait. Well, in a few minutes this man made--
Mr. Ball.: What did you see the policeman do?
Mrs. Markham.: See the policeman? Well, this man, like I told you, put his arms up, leaned over, he just a minute, and he drew back and he stepped back about two steps. Mr. Tippit--
Mr. Ball.: The policeman?
Mrs. Markham.: The policeman calmly opened the car door, very slowly, wasn't angry or nothing, he calmly crawled out of this car, and I still just thought a friendly conversation, maybe disturbance in the house, I did not know; well, just as the policeman got--
Mr. Ball.: Which way did he walk?
Mrs. Markham.: Towards the front of the car. And just as he had gotten even with the wheel on the driver's side--
Mr. Ball.: You mean the left front wheel?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes; this man shot the policeman.
Mr. Ball.: You heard the shots, did you?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: How many shots did you hear?
Mrs. Markham.: Three.
Mr. Ball.: What did you see the policeman do?
Mrs. Markham.: He fell to the ground, and his cap went a little ways out on the street.
Mr. Ball.: What did the man do?
Mrs. Markham.: The man, he just walked calmly, fooling with his gun.
Mr. Ball.: Toward what direction did he walk?
Mrs. Markham.: Come back towards me, turned around, and went back.
Mr. Ball.: Toward Patton?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir; towards Patton. He didn't run. It just didn't scare him to death. He didn't run. When he saw me he looked at me, stared at me. I put my hands over my face like this, closed my eyes. I gradually opened my fingers like this, and 1 opened my eyes, and when I did he started off in kind of a little trot.
Mr. Ball.: Which way?
Mrs. Markham.: Sir?
Mr. Ball.: Which way?
Mrs. Markham.: Towards Jefferson, right across that way.
Mr. Dulles.: Did he have the pistol in his hand at this time?
Mrs. Markham.: He had the gun when I saw him.
Mr. Ball.: Did you yell at him?
Mrs. Markham.: When I pulled my fingers down where I could see, I got my hand down, he began to trot off, and then I ran to the policeman.
Mr. Ball.: Before you put your hands over your eyes, before you put your hand over your eyes, did you see the man walk towards the corner?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Ball.: What did he do?
Mrs. Markham.: Well, he stared at me.
Mr. Ball.: What did you do?
Mrs. Markham.: I didn't do anything. I couldn't.
Mr. Ball.: Didn't you say something?
Mrs. Markham.: No, I couldn't.
Mr. Ball.: Or yell or scream?
Mrs. Markham.: I could not. I could not say nothing.
Mr. Ball.: You looked at him?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Ball.: You looked at him
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir. He looked wild. I mean, well, he did to me.
Mr. Ball.: And you say you saw him fooling with his gun?
Mrs. Markham.: He had it in his hands.
Mr. Ball.: Did you see what he was doing with it?
Mrs. Markham.: He was just fooling with it. I didn't know what he was doing. I was afraid he was fixing to kill me.
Mr. Ball.: How far away from the police car do you think you were on the corner when you saw the shooting?
Mrs. Markham.: Well, I wasn't too far.
Mr. Ball.: Can you estimate it in feet? Don't guess.
Mrs. Markham.: I would just be afraid to say how many feet because I am a bad judgment on that.
Mr. Ball.: When you looked at the man, though, when he came toward the corner, you were standing on one corner, were you?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir
Mr. Ball.: Where was he standing with reference to the other corner?
Mrs. Markham.: After he had shot--
Mr. Ball.: When he looked at you.
Mrs. Markham.: After he had shot the policeman?
Mr. Ball.: Yes.
Mrs. Markham.: He was standing almost even to that curb, not very far from the curb, from the sidewalk.
Mr. Ball.: Across the street from you?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Did he look at you?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: And did you look at him?
Mrs. Markham.: I sure did.
Mr. Ball.: That was before you put your hands over your eyes?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir; and he kept fooling with his gun, and I slapped my hands up to my face like this.
Mr. Ball.: And then you ran to the policeman?
Mrs. Markham.: After he ran off.
Mr. Ball.: In what hand did he have his gun, do you know, when he fired the shots?
Mrs. Markham.: Sir, I believe it was his right. I am not positive because I was scared.
Mr. Ball.: When he came down the street towards you, in what hand did he have his gun?
Mrs. Markham.: He had it in both of them.
Mr. Ball.: He had it in both of them?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: When he went towards Jefferson you say he went at sort of a trot?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Did he cross Patton?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Dulles.: Were there many other, or other people in the block at that time, or were you there with Officer Tippit almost alone?
Mrs. Markham.: I was out there, I didn't see anybody. I was there alone by myself.
Mr. Dulles.: I see. You didn't see anybody else in the immediate neighborhood?
Mrs. Markham.: No; not until everything was over--I never seen anybody until I was at Mr. Tippit's side. I tried to save his life, which was I didn't know at that time I couldn't do something for him.
Mr. Dulles.: Mr. Tippit, Officer Tippit, didn't say anything to you?
Mrs. Markham.: He tried to.
Mr. Dulles.: He tried to?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Dulles.: But he didn't succeed?
Mrs. Markham.: No, I couldn't understand. I was screaming and hollering and I was trying to help him all I could, and I would have. I was with him until they put him in the ambulance.
Mr. Ball.: Did you make an estimate of how far you were from this man with the gun when he came--after the shooting, and when he came down to the corner, did you make an estimate of that?
Mrs. Markham.: No. To anyone--
Mr. Ball.: We measured it the other day. We were out there, weren't we?
Mrs. Markham.: Now I couldn't tell you how many feet or nothing because I have never had no occasions to measure that.
Mr. Dulles.: Was it further than this table, the length of this table?
Mrs. Markham.: It was across the street.
Mr. Dulles.: Across the street. It was two or three times the length of this table?
Mrs. Markham.: Across from the street. That was too close.
Mr. Ball.: We have a map coming from the FBI. We thought it would be here this morning.
Mrs. Markham, you were taken to the Police Department, weren't you?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Immediately.
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Later that day they had a showup you went to?
Mrs. Markham.: A lineup?
Mr. Ball.: A lineup.
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Ball.: How many men were in the lineup?
Mrs. Markham.: I believe there were, now I am not positive, I believe there were three besides this man.
Mr. Ball.: That would be four people altogether?
Mrs. Markham.: I believe that is correct.
Mr. Ball.: Were they of anywhere near similar build or size or coloring?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, they were all about the same height.
Mr. Ball.: Who were you in the lineup room with?
Mrs. Markham.: Who was I in the room where they had this man?
Mr. Ball.: Yes.
Mrs. Markham.: Policemen.
Mr. Ball.: More than one?
Mrs. Markham.: The room was full.
Mr. Ball.: It was. In this lineup room, the room was full of policemen. Weren't there just one or two men with you?
Mrs. Markham.: One or two with me, but I don't know who they were.
Mr. Ball.: But there were other officers?
Mrs. Markham.: There were all policemen sitting in the back of me, and aside of me.
Mr. Ball.: In this room?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir. They were doing something.
Mr. Ball.: Before you went into this room were you shown a picture of anyone?
Mrs. Markham.: I was not.
Mr. Ball.: Did you see any television?
Mrs. Markham.: I did not.
Mr. Ball.: Did a police officer say anything to you before you went in there, to tell you--
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Ball.: That he thought "We had the right man," or something of that sort? Anything like that?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Ball.: No statement like that?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Did anybody tell you that the man you were looking for would be in a certain position in the lineup, or anything like that?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Now when you went into the room you looked these people over, these four men?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Did you recognize anyone in the lineup?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Ball.: You did not? Did you see anybody--I have asked you that question before did you recognize anybody from their face?
Mrs. Markham.: From their face, no.
Mr. Ball.: Did you identify anybody in these four people?
Mrs. Markham.: I didn't know nobody.
Mr. Ball.: I know you didn't know anybody, but did anybody in that lineup look like anybody you had seen before?
Mrs. Markham.: No. I had never seen none of them, none of these men.
Mr. Ball.: No one of the four?
Mrs. Markham.: No one of them.
Mr. Ball.: No one of all four?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Was there a number two man in there?
Mrs. Markham.: Number two is the one I picked.
Mr. Ball.: Well, I thought you just told me that you hadn't--
Mrs. Markham.: I thought you wanted me to describe their clothing.
Mr. Ball.: No. I wanted to know if that day when you were in there if you saw anyone in there--
Mrs. Markham.: Number two.
Mr. Ball.: What did you say when you saw number two?
Mrs. Markham.: Well, let me tell you. I said the second man, and they kept asking me which one, which one. I said, number two. When I said number two, I just got weak.
Mr. Ball.: What about number two, what did you mean when you said number two?
Mrs. Markham.: Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman.
Mr. Ball.: You recognized him from his appearance?
Mrs. Markham.: I asked--I looked at him. When I saw this man I wasn't sure, but I had cold chills just run all over me.
Mr. Ball.: When you saw him?
Mrs. Markham.: When I saw the man. But I wasn't sure, so, you see, I told them I wanted to be sure, and looked, at his face is what I was looking at, mostly is what I looked at, on account of his eyes, the way he looked at me. So I asked them if they would turn him sideways. They did, and then they turned him back around, and I said the second, and they said, which one, and I said number two. So when I said that, well, I just kind of fell over. Everybody in there, you know, was beginning to talk, and I don't know, just--
Mr. Ball.: Did you recognize him from his clothing?
Mrs. Markham.: He had on a light short jacket, dark trousers. I looked at his clothing, but I looked at his face, too.
Mr. Ball.: Did he have the same clothing on that the man had that you saw shoot the officer?
Mrs. Markham.: He had, these dark trousers on.
Mr. Ball.: Did he have a jacket or a shirt? The man that you saw shoot Officer Tippit and run away, did you notice if he had a jacket on?
Mrs. Markham.: He had a jacket on when he done it.
Mr. Ball.: What kind of a jacket, what general color of jacket?
Mrs. Markham.: It was a short jacket open in the front, kind of a grayish tan.
Mr. Ball.: Did you tell the police that?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, I did.
Mr. Ball.: Did any man in the lineup have a jacket on?
Mrs. Markham.: I can't remember that.
Mr. Ball.: Did this number two man that you mentioned to the police have any jacket on when he was in the lineup?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Ball.: What did he have on?
Mrs. Markham.: He had on a light shirt and dark trousers.

(Representative Ford is now in the Commission hearing room.)

Mr. Ball.: Did you recognize the man from his clothing or from his face?
Mrs. Markham.: Mostly from his face.
Mr. Ball.: Were you sure it was the same man you had seen before?
Mrs. Markham.: I am sure.
Mr. Ball.: Now, what time of day was it that you saw this man in the lineup?
Mrs. Markham.: I would say it was four, a little after.
Mr. Ball.: That was four in the afternoon?
Mrs. Markham.: I was so upset I couldn't even tell you the time. In fact, I wasn't interested in the time.
Mr. Ball.: Yes.
Mr. Dulles.: Could I ask just one question?
Mr. Ball.: Yes.
Mr. Dulles.: You referred to his eyes; they were rather striking. Can you give any impression of how his eyes looked to you? I realize that is a very vague question.
Mrs. Markham.: Yes. He looked wild. They were glassy looking, because I could see--
Mr. Dulles.: He had no glasses on?
Mrs. Markham.: No. When we looked at each other, he just stared, just like that. I just don't know. I just seen him--I would know the man anywhere, I know I would.
Mr. Dulles.: Thank you.
Mr. Ball.: I have here an exhibit, Commission Exhibit 162, a jacket. Did you ever see this before?
Mrs. Markham.: No; I did not.
Mr. Ball.: Does it look like, anything like, the jacket the man had on?
Mrs. Markham.: It is short, open down the front. But that jacket it is a darker jacket than that, I know it was.
Mr. Ball.: You don't think it was as light a jacket as that?
Mrs. Markham.: No, it was darker than that, I know it was. At that moment I was so excited--
Mr. Ball.: I show you a shirt here, which is Exhibit 150. Did you ever see a shirt the color of this?
Mrs. Markham.: The shirt that this man had, it was a lighter looking shirt than that.
Mr. Ball.: The man who shot Tippit?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir; I think it was lighter.
Mr. Ball.: All right. I have some pictures here that I would like to show you. I have Exhibits 521 and 522, which have been marked as Exhibits. Here is one picture, 521. Do you recognize that as the sign down?
Mrs. Markham.: This is the corner of Patton and 10th.
Mr. Ball.: Patton and 10th.
Mrs. Markham.: This is on the corner of Patton and 10th.
Mr. Ball.: Yes. Was the man anywhere near that corner when you saw him?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, he was.
Mr. Ball.: After the shooting?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir; he was.
Mr. Ball.: All right. Now, take this pen and put an X as to the point when he looked at you and you looked at him.
Mrs. Markham.: He was right along here.
Mr. Ball.: Put an X.
Mrs. Markham.: I don't know. I am too nervous.
Mr. Ball.: At the time the man was standing at X in this picture, at this location, which is shown in 521, where were you?
Mrs. Markham.: I was on the opposite corner, across over here, like this.
Mr. Ball.: Were you as close to the curb as--were you close to the curb at that time?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, I was.
Mr. Dulles.: Where was the car, where this car is?
Mr. Ball.: No, I have another picture I will show her. I have here Exhibit 522; do you recognize the white house in the picture?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Ball.: And the driveway next to it?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Does that show the location of the police car at the time it stopped?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir. That is the big old white house, 404.
Mr. Ball.: That is right.
Mrs. Markham.: 10th Street, and this driveway and this house.
Mr. Dulles.: Will you give us an idea, Mr. Ball, as to where she said she was on this picture? Was she over here?
Mr. Ball.: We have a picture. There is a booklet here that has been prepared by a succession of witnesses. We have a general diagram here which I will show the witness at this time.
Mrs. Markham, there is a diagram here which shows 10th Street going in an easterly and westerly direction, Patton running north and south.

(Marked Commission Exhibit No. 523 for identification.)

Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Do you understand that?
Mrs. Markham.: This would be the corner I would be at.
Mr. Ball.: No, this would be Patton. This is north and south. Jefferson is down here. Can you locate yourself?
Mrs. Markham.: This is 10th?
Mr. Ball.: That is 10th.
Mrs. Markham.: And this Patton?
Mr. Ball.: That is right.
Mrs. Markham.: I was standing on the corner of 10th and Patton.
Mr. Ball.: That is right. But which corner?
Mrs. Markham.: Northeast corner is where I was standing.
Mr. Ball.: Northeast or northwest? This would be northeast and this would be northwest. Here is where the squad car would be. Right there. Here is 404.
Mrs. Markham.: It would be this corner then.
Mr. Ball.: Well, that is northeast and that is northwest. Were you kitty-cornered?
Mrs. Markham.: I was kitty-cornered from it like this.
Mr. Ball.: Like that?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Well, this is northwest, this is northeast, southeast, southwest, and here is the car. We are going down the street now.
Mrs. Markham.: It would be this--that would be on the opposite side.
Mr. Ball.: That is right. Look at a number on that and tell me where you were standing.
Mrs. Markham.: I was standing right at the curb.
Mr. Ball.: Do you see a number?
Mrs. Markham.: Number 5.
Mr. Ball.: Number 5 on this diagram would be indicating the place where you would be standing, is that right?
Mrs. Markham.: I was standing on the opposite corner from that.
Mr. Ball.: I know, but I have got to get you to tell me where you were standing. Picture yourself going down Patton towards Jefferson.
Mrs. Markham.: Going down Patton?
Mr. Ball.: You were coming from this direction. Your home was up here.
Mrs. Markham.: I was coming down Patton. It would be this corner.
Mr. Ball.: That corner, all right. Take this pen and show your course down the sidewalk.
Mrs. Markham.: Just draw it right on it?
Mr. Ball.: Down to where you stood.
Mrs. Markham.: Right on the edge.
Mr. Ball.: Is there a number there that shows where you were?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Ball.: Near 5, is that right?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Dulles.: That is the northwest corner?
Mr. Ball.: Northwest corner; that is the northwest corner. Here is a picture. Do you recognize that?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: That is picture number 3 in the booklet. Does that show where you were?

(Marked Commission Exhibit No. 524 for identification.)

Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Where was the man shot?
Mrs. Markham.: Right here.
Mr. Ball.: Put a mark where you first saw him. Mark that A. Then he went which direction down the street?
Mrs. Markham.: He went this way.
Mr. Ball.: In other words, he went in a direction-draw a line and then put an arrow showing what direction.
Mrs. Markham.: From here--
Mr. Ball.: Yes.
Mrs. Markham.: Right on down the side.
Mr. Ball.: Make a mark and put an arrow. That was the direction he was walking?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: The police car had not come into sight yet?
Mrs. Markham.: That is right.
Mr. Ball.: Put an X where the police car was when you first saw it, put an X there and we will mark that B. Now, after the shooting, where was the man when you looked at him?
Mrs. Markham.: He turned and came back this way.
Mr. Ball.: Where did he stand and look at you?
Mrs. Markham.: Right here.
Mr. Ball.: Put a mark there. We will mark that C. Where were you standing when he was looking at you?
Mrs. Markham.: The same position.
Mr. Ball.: The same position as the girl shown on this picture?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Is that your picture?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: That is you there in that picture?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Did you stand there for the photographer to show him where you were standing?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: I would like to offer into evidence the diagram in this book, together with the picture which illustrates the diagram.
The Chairman.: Under what numbers?
Mr. Ball.: As 523, which is the diagram, and 524, which is the picture.
The Chairman.: They may be admitted.

(The documents identified as Commission Exhibits Nos. 521-524 were received in evidence.)

Mr. Ball.: You went out there in picture number 3. Now, Mr. Dulles, I think this will explain it.
Mr. Dulles.: Yes, Mr. Ball.
Mr. Ball.: I have some other pictures here that might illustrate. Do you recognize this?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Ball.: You were here the time the picture was taken?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: You told the parties where to put the squad car?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Does this show the place where the police car was when this happened?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: The place at the arrow?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: It shows a corner.
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: On the picture make a mark where the man was when he came back and looked at you.
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir. He was a little behind this.
Mr. Ball.: Just make an X there in general.
Mrs. Markham.: That is supposed to be on the sidewalk.
Mr. Ball.: I would like to have this marked as Commission Exhibit 525. The X marks the position of the man who did the shooting on the corner after the shooting, and the arrow points to the squad car. Here is another picture marked 4 in this book which I will mark as Commission Exhibit 526. Is that you in the picture?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: You went out there the day the picture was taken?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Is that where you were standing?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Is that where you were when you saw the shooting?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Did you move from that place from the time of the shooting until the time you saw the man on the corner?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Dulles.: I wonder, Mrs. Markham, if you would repeat for me, I would like to hear it, and Congressman Ford would like to hear it, the scene that you saw where the man now known to be Oswald went up and put his arms on the door of the police car, as I understand it.
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Dulles.: Would you tell that once again. I would like to hear it again.
Mrs. Markham.: He calmly walked to the car. He wasn't in no hurry.
Mr. Dulles.: May I ask, was he called, were there any words that you heard?
Mrs. Markham.: No, I did not. I seen the police car stop.
Mr. Dulles.: You didn't hear the policeman say, "Come here," or anything of that kind?
Mrs. Markham.: No.
Mr. Dulles.: He might have done it, but you didn't hear it?
Mrs. Markham.: That is right. And the man went over to the car, put his hands on the window--
Mr. Dulles.: The window was open?
Mrs. Markham.: Leaned over like this.
Mr. Dulles.: Let me see. Was that on the right-hand side of the car, or where the driver was?
Mrs. Markham.: It was on the opposite side of the car.
Mr. Dulles.: Opposite side of the car from the driver, yes.
Mrs. Markham.: Yes. The window was down, and I know it was down, I know, and he put his arms and leaned over, I don't know what they were talking about, I didn't hear it. Then he stepped back in a few minutes, stepped back two steps.
Mr. Dulles.: He stepped back two steps from the car?
Mrs. Markham.: Just stepped back twice. Mr. Tippit, of course, the policeman-I didn't know it was Mr. Tippit--
Mr. Dulles.: Yes.
Mrs. Markham.: He calmly opened the door. He calmly crawled out like he wasn't angry.
Mr. Dulles.: Did he have a weapon in his hands?
Mrs. Markham.: I didn't see one.
Mr. Dulles.: And what happened?
Mrs. Markham.: He was just calmly walking to the front of the car and when he got even with the wheel on the driver's side, front, you know, that man shot him.
Mr. Dulles.: Did you see him draw his revolver?
Mrs. Markham.: He shot him like this.
Mr. Dulles.: I see.
Mr. Ball.: Like this, you mean from the hip or from the waist?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes. In the wink of your eye, before you could ever--just like that. It didn't seem like it bothered him, disturbed him.
Mr. Dulles.: The policeman hadn't made, as far as you could see, any menacing gestures toward him? He wasn't trying to grab him or anything of that kind?
Mrs. Markham.: No. He was very calm, very. I would say like in slow motion, you know, like he was getting out to talk with the man, or go in the house for disturbance or something, I don't know.
Mr. Ball.: He shot across the hood of the car?
Mrs. Markham.: Across the hood.
Mr. Ball.: The policeman was in the street, walking in the street around to the front of the car?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Dulles.: The policeman then got out on the opposite side of where Oswald was?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, I guess he was coming around.
Representative Ford.: It appeared as though he was walking around the front of the car?
Mrs. Markham.: He had started around, and then he was going over to the man.
Mr. Ball.: He had only reached the left front wheel though when he was shot?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: And he fell into the street?
Mrs. Markham.: He fell into the street, his hat fell off his head. He didn't fall, just clumped down like that.
Representative Ford.: Did the man with the gun move at all as the officer started to go around the car?
Mrs. Markham.: No. He didn't move. I mean, walked back or anything like that, no, sir.
Representative Ford.: He didn't appear to run?
Mrs. Markham.: No. I didn't know anything was-going to happen. If I had I would have kept walking, not walking, running.
Mr. Dulles.: He had walked slowly around the car to meet the other man?
Mrs. Markham.: The policeman was.
Mr. Dulles.: Slow?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Was there a pool of blood where Mr. Tippit fell in the street?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: I show you this picture, Exhibit 533 (remembered as Exhibit 527, see p. 321). Will you look at that picture and tell me whether it shows the approximate position where Mr. Tippit fell after he was shot?
Mrs. Markham.: He fell right out this way.
Mr. Ball.: Look at the discoloration in the street. Is that anywhere near where Tippit fell?
Mrs. Markham.: It don't seem to me it was out that far.
Mr. Ball.: It doesn't?
Mrs. Markham.: It seemed like to me it was over this way because he fell this way.
Mr. Ball.: He fell this way? These people can't see what you are showing here. Here is the pool of blood. Which way do you think he fell?
Mrs. Markham.: See the wheel would be right down under here, back right this way. He fell this way.
Mr. Ball.: Into the street?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, and his head was like this, you know, it was laying like this.
Mr. Dulles.: Is this splotch out here in front of the car the pool of blood?
Mr. Ball.: Out to the left.
Mrs. Markham.: It seems to me it ought to be here.
Mr. Ball.: But there was a pool of blood?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: I will pass this out to the Commissioners.
Representative Ford.: May I ask this, Mr. Ball, the place where you pointed, where you thought the pool of blood different from where it is shown on here was only a matter of what, a foot or two?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir; just about a little, back a little. It seems his hat was this way.
Representative Ford.: So it is a difference of a foot or two, at the most?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Ball.: That is right.
Mr. Dulles.: Could you see the blood at this time or just see him fall? Did you actually see blood?
Mrs. Markham.: Did I actually see it, sir? I was there.
Mr. Dulles.: I know you were there.
Mrs. Markham.: I was standing over it.
Mr. Dulles.: You were standing right over the officer?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes. Just as soon as, just as quick as I could get to him; and the blood was coming from here like this and like that, in an oval shape. It did not splutter on his face too much, his mouth. It was here, coming out here.
Representative Ford.: The blood was?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, just gushes. I had my workshoes in my hand. I laid them up on the squad car. I had my purse, which I can't remember where I put it, but this, I had a head scarf around my head, I had my coat on.
Mr. Ball.: I would like to offer all of these into evidence at this time, up to 526, inclusive.
The Chairman.: They may be received.

(The items identified as Commission Exhibits Nos. 525 and 526 were received in evidence.)

The Chairman.: Mr. Dulles, will you preside in my absence, please. I must attend a session of the Court.
Mr. Dulles.: I will, sir.

(The Chairman left the hearing room at this point.)

Mr. Ball.: Mrs. Markham, the police car, did the police car go beyond the man who was walking along the sidewalk, or did it stop opposite him?
Mrs. Markham.: Almost even with him.
Mr. Ball.: And when the police car stopped, did the man stop?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir; and walked over to the policeman.
Mr. Ball.: The police car was going in the same direction as the man?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes. sir.
Mr. Ball.: And caught up with him?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes. sir.
Mr. Ball.: Mrs. Markham, do you know a man named Mark Lane?
Mrs. Markham.: No; I do not.
Mr. Ball.: Did you ever hear of the name?
Mrs. Markham.: Did not.
Mr. Ball.: Did you ever talk to a New York lawyer who says he was from New York?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Did you ever talk to a lawyer who was investigating the case in behalf of the deceased man, Lee Oswald?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Did you ever talk to a man who said he was representing the mother of Lee Oswald?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Ball.: You don't remember ever talking to a man named Mark Lane?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Ball.: In an appearance before this Commission, a man named Mark Lane has testified this way. Let me read it to you. That was on Wednesday, March 4, 1964, Vol. II of a public hearing before this Commission, page 51. This is what he said:
"I spoke with the deponent"-he is talking about an affidavit that you made to the Dallas Police Department-"l spoke with the deponent, the eyewitness, Helen Louise Markham, and Mrs. Markham told me Miss or Mrs., I didn't ask her if she was married--told me she was 100 feet away from the police car, not the 50 feet which appears in the affidavit."
Do you recall ever stating that to Mr. Lane or anyone else?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir; no, sir.
Mr. Ball.: He testified: "She gave me a more detailed description of the man who she said shot Officer Tippit. She said he was short, a little on the heavy side, and his hair was somewhat bushy." Did you say that to Mark Lane?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir; I don't even know the man.
Mr. Ball.: Or anybody else?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Did you ever tell anyone that the man who shot Tippit was short, a little on the heavy side, and his hair was somewhat bushy?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Was the man, is it your memory now that the man who shot Tippit was short, a little on the heavy side?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir. He wasn't too heavy.
Mr. Ball.: Is it your memory that his hair was bushy?
Mrs. Markham.: It wasn't so bushy. It was, say, windblown or something. What I mean, he didn't have a lot of hair.
Mr. Ball.: He didn't have a lot of hair?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir; that I could see. I don't even know that man; I never talked to nobody.
Representative Ford.: You didn't talk to him by telephone or any other means?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Representative Ford.: Did you ever get an anonymous phone call from a person who asked you these questions?
Mrs. Markham.: No.
Mr. Ball.: Now, he also says, and he testified as follows:
"Helen Markham said to me she was taken to the police station on that same day, that she was very upset. She, of course, had never seen anyone killed in front of her eyes before, and in the police station she identified Oswald as the person who had shot Officer Tippit in the lineup, including three other persons. She said no one pointed Oswald out to her, and she said she was just shown four people, and she picked Oswald. She said when he asked her how she could identify him, she said she was able to identify him because of his clothing, a gray jacket and dark trousers."
Did you ever make that statement to him?
Mrs. Markham.: I did not, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Or to anyone else?
Mrs. Markham.: Not to anybody.
Mr. Ball.: When you identified Oswald--it was the number 2 man--were you told the number 2 man whom you identified in the lineup?
Mrs. Markham.: No, I was not.
Mr. Ball.: Were you ever told his name?
Mrs. Markham.: No.
Mr. Ball.: Ever told his name later?
Mrs. Markham.: Nobody, nobody told me nothing.
Mr. Ball.: Well, the man that you identified as the number 2 man in the lineup in the police station, you identified him as the man you had seen shoot Officer Tippit?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, I did.
Mr. Ball.: Did you identify him because of his clothing that he had on at that time in the lineup.
Mrs. Markham.: Just like I told you. I mostly looked at his face, his eyes, and his clothing, too.
Mr. Ball.: He said here you were able to identify him, Mark Lane testified that you told him you were able to identify him because of his clothing, a gray jacket. First, did the man in the lineup have a gray jacket on?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Ball.: What did he have on?
Mrs. Markham.: He had on this light shirt, dark trousers.
Mr. Dulles.: You have considered your answers very carefully, have you, on this point?
Mrs. Markham.: I am doing my best.
Mr. Dulles.: Yes, I know you are, and you are quite sure you never talked to anyone who purported to be Mr. Lane?
Mrs. Markham.: Never in my life. I talked to two men, and this man who told me he was from Paris, France. He came down on my job. I was scared to death. I wasn't going to talk to him. I work for a Greek.
Mr. Dulles.: Let's get this a little more clearly, Mrs. Markham. You say you talked with someone who came from France?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Dulles.: Did he represent a French newspaper?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Dulles.: You don't know what newspaper?
Mrs. Markham.: No. He told--you see, I didn't understand this man, but my boss could.
Mr. Dulles.: He came to you in the restaurant?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes. And I was scared, which I was scared of everybody. I was upset and trying to work, too, and he was--he come to me and he asked for me and, of course, they knew who I was because I was there so long.
Mr. Dulles.: When was that?
Mrs. Markham.: I don't recall the date.
Mr. Dulles.: Was it 2 or 3 days after the assassination or was it right after?
Mrs. Markham.: It was quite some time after.
Mr. Dulles.: Some time after?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Dulles.: A week or more, maybe?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Representative Ford.: Can you describe this man?.
Mrs. Markham.: He had-he was dark complected, very nice man, black horn-rimmed glasses, blackheaded, and he was build kind of--
Mr. Dulles.: What did he ask you--excuse me.
Representative Ford.: Was he tall or short, heavy set?
Mrs. Markham.: About medium, I guess. I didn't pay much attention to the man.
Representative Ford.: Did he have an accent?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, he did.
Representative Ford.: Was it difficult for you to understand him because of this accent?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes. This is what this man told me. He told me he told my boss and my boss also told me, my boss stood right beside me.
Representative Ford.: Did he speak in English with an accent?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes. But this man told me the Government sent him.
Representative Ford.: Did he identify which government?
Mrs. Markham.: He had--he showed me who he was. He was a news reporter.
Mr. Dulles.: Did he say whether he was a foreigner or an American citizen?
Mrs. Markham.: I can't remember. I was too scared. But he did show me his identification, his picture and everything. The Government had sent him to me, which he was coming to Washington. He was supposed to be here, and then back somewhere in Dallas, I think he told me.
Mr. Dulles.: Could you recall the questions he asked you?
Mrs. Markham.: He just asked me very few questions. This man asked me about if the police had taken me down to the police station and did I see anything after I went into the police station, hear any TV, or see any TV, any radio, newspapers, or anybody talked to me, and I said they did not.
Representative Ford.: Did your employer listen to the questions and answers?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, James Gambolis listened to it.
Mr. Dulles.: We will take a moment's recess.

(A short recess was taken.)

Mr. Ball.: On the 22d of November, 1963, that is the day of the shooting, did you talk to an FBI agent named Odum? Do you remember?
Mrs. Markham.: I talked to some people, men, down at the police station.
Mr. Ball.: That is right. He says that you described the man who shot Tippit as a white male, about 18, black hair, red complexion, wearing black shoes, tan jacket, and dark trousers. Do you remember that?
Mrs. Markham.: I never said anything about his shoes because I never did look at his feet.
Mr. Ball.: Did you say about 18?
Mrs. Markham.: I said he was young looking.
Mr. Ball.: Did you give that age, 18?
Mrs. Markham.: No, I don't believe I did.
Mr. Ball.: Did you say he had black hair?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: You thought he was black-haired?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, that is what I told him. I thought he was black-haired. I remember saying that.
Mr. Ball.: Red complexion?
Mrs. Markham.: No, not red complexioned.
Mr. Ball.: You didn't say that?
Mr. Dulles.: Mrs. Markham, did you say you talked to two persons, one person whom you are now describing from a foreign newspaper, and one other?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Dulles.: Who was the other one with whom you talked?
Mrs. Markham.: I don't recall. He was a newspaper reporter by Life magazine.
Mr. Dulles.: Life magazine?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes. I remember, which they did print the picture in Life magazine.
Mr. Dulles.: And Life magazine printed what you told them?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Dulles.: And printed it accurately as far as you recall?
Mrs. Markham.: Very little of what I told him did he put in.
Mr. Dulles.: What they put in was accurate more or less?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Representative Ford.: It coincided with what you told him?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, just a little old paragraph or two.
Mr. Dulles.: Except for those two persons, you don't recall talking with anyone about your testimony or your appearance in the lineup?
Mrs. Markham.: No, sir.
Mr. Dulles.: Just those two?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Just a few more questions, Mrs. Markham. You ran immediately over to where the police officer was lying in the street?
Mrs. Markham.: I did.
Mr. Ball.: Was he alive?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Did he say anything?
Mrs. Markham.: He was trying to, but he just couldn't. I just couldn't make out what he was trying to say.
Mr. Ball.: Did some man come up immediately thereafter?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Ball.: What kind of a car did he have?
Mrs. Markham.: Not immediately.
Mr. Ball.: Soon?
Mrs. Markham.: Soon.
Mr. Ball.: In a pickup truck?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes. I very frankly remembered this truck, but I remember it the way it took off.
Mr. Ball.: He stopped though, didn't he?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes.
Mr. Ball.: That is the man who called over the police radio, wasn't he?
Mrs. Markham.: I don't recall.
Mr. Ball.: What did he look like, the man in the pickup truck?
Mrs. Markham.: This man had a hat on. I thought he was a policeman.
Mr. Ball.: A dark man, looked somewhat Spanish?
Mrs. Markham.: I don't recall. I was screaming and crying and trying to get help, begging for somebody to help me.
Mr. Ball.: When did you start screaming?
Mrs. Markham.: I started screaming by the time I left where I was standing and screamed plumb across the street.
Mr. Ball.: Do you remember what you said?
Mrs. Markham.: "The man has killed a policeman," I remember, "Somebody help. He has killed him, he has killed him," I was saying that, I was pulling my hair almost. It is a wonder he did not turn and kill me, really it was.
Mr. Ball.: Did you see Mr. Scoggins?
Mrs. Markham.: I don't remember--
Mr. Ball.: The taxicab driver.
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, I saw the taxicab driver.
Mr. Ball.: Where was the taxicab?
Mrs. Markham.: Parked on Patton.
Mr. Ball.: On Patton?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Did you see the man later, did you see him before the shooting?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, he was sitting in his cab.
Mr. Ball.: He was. Then you saw him afterward, didn't you?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.: Those are all the questions I have of this witness. Do you have something additional?
Mrs. Markham.: Believe me, it was just like--
Mr. Dulles.: I believe Mr. Ford would like to have the witness repeat what she saw the man, now known as Oswald, do after the shooting. Will you just repeat that for Congressman Ford?
Mrs. Markham.: After he shot the policeman--
Mr. Dulles.: After he shot the policeman.
Mrs. Markham.: After he shot the policeman he turned around, came back around toward Patton Street. He wasn't he didn't seem to be in a no hurry. I thought he hadn't done anything, and he was fooling with his gun in his hands, and he seen me, and he stops.
Mr. Dulles.: He stopped?
Mrs. Markham.: When he saw me. That is the reason we were looking at each other.
Mr. Dulles.: He hadn't seen you before so far as you could tell?
Mrs. Markham.: I put my hands over my face and closed my eyes, because I knew he was going to kill me. I couldn't scream, I couldn't holler. I froze.
Mr. Dulles.: I think you testified about that then he began to run slowly.
Mrs. Markham.: Then-
Mr. Dulles.: Was that after he saw you?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes; after I put my hands up, and when I had opened my fingers and my eyes and slowly pulled them down, he was trotting off.
Mr. Dulles.: Trotting off?
Mrs. Markham.: Yes, sir. He wasn't out of sight when I started running to this police car. He was not out of sight.
Mr. Dulles.: You didn't see which way he turned at the end of this run?
Mrs. Markham.: No; he cut across like this, across Patton, and went out like that.
Mr. Dulles.: Like this means to the right or to the left?
Mrs. Markham.: It means to the right, sir.
Mr. Belin.: To his right, to the man's right, as he was running?
Mrs. Markham.: He ran back, turned and came back down 10th to Patton Street. He cut across Patton Street like this.
Mr. Belin.: Heading toward what street?
Mrs. Markham.: Toward Jefferson; yes, sir. Then he was still in sight when I began to scream and holler and run to this police car, well, to Mr. Tippit.
Mr. Dulles.: Thank you.
Mr. Ball.: Are there any more questions? You can be excused, Mrs. Markham.
Mr. Dulles.: Do you have any questions you would like to ask, Mr. Attorney General?
Mr. Carr.: No; I have not.
Mr. Dulles.: Could you wait for just a moment. We are sorry to detain you. There is something that might come up with the next witness, and we might wish to ask you another question. I do not think we will. We are very grateful to you, Mrs. Markham.
Mr. Ball.: Exhibit previously marked "533," which is the squad car, Tippit, showing the street and blood spot in the street, I would like to have marked as "Exhibit 527." It was marked by mistake.
Mr. Dulles.: Is that our last exhibit?
Mr. Ball.: That is our last exhibit, 527 is our last exhibit now.

(The item identified as Commission Exhibit No. 527 was received in evidence.)

Mr. Dulles.: You might stand for just a moment, Mr. Scoggins. The witnesses are sworn before they can give testimony before this Commission.
Do you swear, Mr. Scoggins, that the testimony that you will give before this Commission is the truth, the whole truth, so help you God?
Mr. Scoggins.: To the best of my knowledge; yes.
Mr. Dulles.: Be seated, please. Mr. Scoggins. The Commission is taking testimony, and the Chief Justice asked me to preside in his absence, he has to be away in the Court this morning.
The purpose of today's hearing is to hear your testimony and that of certain others who were in the vicinity of the shooting of Officer Tippit, and we will want your testimony on that particular point this morning.
Will you proceed?
Mr. Ball.: Mr. Belin is going to examine this witness.
Mr. Dulles.: Mr. Belin will carry on the examination on behalf of the Commission.
Will you proceed, please?

Source:
Warren Commission Hearings, Vol. III, p. 305.

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